Inbound Success Podcast

Apr 23, 2018

How can a challenger brand take on the established players in one of the most competitive verticals - marketing technology - without simply outspending them on marketing?

In this week's episode of The Inbound Success Podcast, Mautic VP of Marketing Katie Stavely talks about the company's approach to expanding awareness of the company's open marketing cloud suite of products. From leveraging the power of Mautic's committed community of brand loyalists, to maintaining a laser focus on the needs of users and ensuring that the company's brand messaging and content is truly authentic (or, as she says, "speaks native marketer"), Katie shares insights into what is driving Mautic's growth.

Listen to the podcast to learn more about the strategies Mautic is using to take on the industry leaders in the martech space, or read the transcript below.

Transcript

Kathleen Booth (host): Welcome back to The Inbound Success Podcast. My name is Kathleen Booth and I am your host, and today my guest is Katie Stavely who is the Vice President of Marketing at Mautic. Welcome, Katie.

Katie: Thanks. I'm glad to be here.

Kathleen: Great to have you. I am so interested to talk to you because I've been watching from the sidelines as Mautic has grown for the last several years, and entering the marketing automation software space is no easy feat. There are a lot of very entrenched players with very deep pockets, and so I'm sort of fascinated to hear the story of Mautic and what you all are doing from a marketing standpoint to achieve such great results. I mean, I saw that your quarter-over-quarter growth in the fourth quarter of last year was tremendous, and as the person who is responsible for marketing for the company, I'm excited to dig in a little bit, so let's start by having you tell listeners a little bit more about yourself and about the company as well.

Katie: I've been with Mautic for about a year and a half now. We're a Series A startup funded by a couple of well-known VC firms here in the Boston area. Prior to Mautic I was at a number of other startups, specifically companies like Acquia who's a similar company in that they have an open-source and commercial business similar to the way that Mautic works, as well as companies in 3D printing, and HP, and some web testing, and those types of things. So, I've been doing B2B marketing for quite some time now, predominately for software but really around technology in general. 

Kathleen: And Mautic really started as an open-source marketing platform, but it's evolved quite a bit, and so I'd love it if you could talk a little bit more about the product's origins and where it's heading.

Katie: Originally the product was conceived by our founder and CTO, David Hurley. So, he's been in similar types of roles, working on other tools, specifically like Joomla, and participating actively in the Joomla open-source community, which is a web CMS. So, he's been in and around the martech space for quite some time.

At one point about five or so years ago, he wasn't happy with the tools on the market for marketing automation and decided he would build one. So, came up with the idea, built an open-source community to help develop the solution and get it to the point where it was ready for organizations to start actively using it, and then from there complemented that open-source community with a commercial business, and that's where we are today. So, for the community side of things, people would visit mautic.org whereas the commercial side of the business, that's where I work, and that's mautic.com.

Kathleen: The product was created at a time when you have players like Eloqua, Pardot, Marketo, HubSpot, and Infusionsoft. I could rattle off quite a few of them at a variety of price ranges, and I imagine if anybody had come to me and said, "I'm going to start a competitor to one of those," I probably would have said, "That's going to be a really hard row to hoe." So, I'm curious to hear what strategies you've been using to really -- I hate to use the word "combat" -- but I mean, to fight for share of attention in an industry that's pretty crowded.

Katie: I think that one of the key underlying philosophies of Mautic as a solution, and frankly it carries over through the community and the company, is this idea of openness. It's a reflection of the open-source mindset in that things are transparent -- everything including full code, right? Anybody could go to mautic.org and download the entire Mautic software and use it, and set it up, and do what they need to do with marketing automation. There are no other open-source marketing automation tools available anywhere, so that's one key factor.

But that openness carries across the entire product in that the idea is that we're making it easier for users to be able to have a high-performing, really powerful solution, but not have the burden of hours and hours of training to learn it, and really complicated workflows, and it's own language on how it, 1) works for you as a user, but then 2) connects with everything else in your stack. So really taking that mindset one, to make it user-friendly, but then two, to have an open API framework, and so, essentially, allowing you to connect to whatever solution you either bought or built, and having APIs open enough that you can share whatever data you want to between the systems.

So, there are some core, I would say, differentiators, and then from there, it's interesting you made the comment of coming in and playing in a market with really heavy hitters, right? It's no secret that Marketo, and Salesforce/Pardot, and Eloqua, they're enormous companies with an intense amount of resources, and beyond what you can imagine, right?

Kathleen: You can't outspend them.

Katie: Absolutely not, and so what I do think is very different is that we're innovating around marketing automation in a very different way, and I do think that having the power of the open-source community that's contributing to the project and helping build the tool is going to make a big difference in the long run.

Kathleen: Taking a step back, can you talk a little bit about what Mautic's marketing mix look like? Are you mostly doing digital? How much advertising is there?

Katie: Sure.

Kathleen: Which are the channels that are really performing for you?

Katie: We're a Series A startup, so we have to be really selective on how we spend our resources, whether it's human capital or literally dollars. A lot of what we're doing is piloting things, so, doing small-scale "Let's try this ad. Let's try PPC and use this vocabulary. Let's try some third-party purchased lists. Let's try outbounds. Let's try events." We went to a handful of events last year, and I've been pleasantly surprised. I've been a bit jaded over the years as far as events go, but I was largely selling to IT and technical people, and so I think events have kind of worn people out a bit in those industries. But I was pleasantly surprised at how engaged this audience has been at these face-to-face events, so those worked really well for us.

But, really, it's like you would expect. It's that we are actively involved in, or actively pursuing, how we build more content that's relevant for this audience, and helps tell our story, and really provides value, right? We don't want to just make content for the sake of making it. We want to bring something new and interesting to the table.

Kathleen: Tell me a little bit about the audience. I'm familiar with the broad brush of people, companies, et cetera that use marketing software, but I wonder who is the perfect sub-segment of that for you?

Katie: It's a question we ask ourselves a lot. The marketing automation market is enormous, right? It's a billion-dollar market. Ask Forrester; ask Gartner. I mean, it's an enormous market with an enormous amount of potential, frankly, so for us, finding where we fit into that market has been a question that we continuously ask ourselves. We're new, so we still have to figure that out.

I will say, though, that we are definitely honing in on a couple of things. For Mautic, as a tool functionally, we do multi-channel marketing, which is very appealing to the B2C market. Oftentimes, the tool would either be for B2C or B2B, not both. We're finding that it's appealing to both markets, one, because of it's ease of use, and two, because of the open API framework. But then this multi-channel component allows B2C the ability to do what they want to do, right? It's not just email. It's text messages, it's social, it's mobile push notifications -- all in the same platform. So, some of those things have really made a difference for us, but we're definitely seeing mid to large enterprises on an active and regular basis.

And the other thing that has differentiated us: because of Mautic being available as a downloadable solution, users have a choice of doing a self-hosted application of Mautic where we would provide professional and enterprise level guidance, and support, and things like that, or they can use our cloud hosted. And so, for some organizations, it's really important for them to keep everything on site, right? They want to protect their data, they want to make sure everything's secure, and so providing that as an option is another avenue for people to get access to a powerful solution like that.

Kathleen: Because they can self-host, and because the product is open-source, is it fair to say that the audience leans more in the direction of being tech-friendly, you know, people for whom implementation is not going to be a very scary thing?

Katie: I'm not sure I would describe it exactly like that. Certainly, the people that are self-hosting, there are technical people on your staff. Now, does that mean the end users are technical? Not necessarily. What we're seeing more and more often is what you would see typically, in that a marketing organization has a complementary technology organization that supports them, right, from everything from CRM to website technology to whatever they're using.

Mautic sort of fits into that bucket along with it. So, for the folks that are doing the self-hosting, they do need a strong technical counterpart to help manage and maintain the software. But for the cloud-hosted, that group, or that function, is often more of a, "Yes, this is going to fit well within our organization." They aren't necessarily as hands-on from a technical standpoint, but certainly evaluating along the way, and making sure it's the right fit for their organization.

Kathleen: Got it. And you have a fairly diverse audience because, I mean, you've got the free product, and then you have the Maestro, the Maven, there's all these different iterations that are coming up in the product.

Katie: Sure.

Kathleen: So, how do you, as the VP of Marketing -- and I know you're on the commercial side, but even within the commercial side it seems like there are different audiences -- how do you manage those different strategies, and what are you seeing as really moving the needle with those different audiences?

Katie: Yeah. I mean, it's really getting a handle on who those audiences are, and trying to speak their language, right? We often use the phrase of "speaking native marketer," right? You know, our marketing team is small, but it's helping educate the rest of the team on things that they should understand, and concepts that they should recognize, and things that are important and not important. So, from an audience standpoint, yeah, it can be a bit diverse in that some of the product areas serve very different purposes, but at the end of the day, it's all with one higher-level objective in mind. And really, I think that marketers are facing this regardless of Mautic being involved or not. The issue is, "How do I make sure that my spend is delivering impact and growth for the business?" Right? "And how do I get to the point where I can continue to do that, predict it, and get better at it over time?" So, it's really keeping that at the core, and then telling different lines of that message depending on who we're talking to.

Kathleen: And you have this immense power of community that some of the other marketing automation and marketing cloud platforms do not have because of your open-source structure.

Katie: Yes.

Kathleen: Are you involving your community in the creation of your marketing content in any way?

Katie: It kind of depends. I have to give props to the other vendors. You know, Marketo has a very strong community, a very loyal community, and similarly, so does HubSpot, right? They've spent over a decade nurturing that community and helping them be successful as marketers, so I don't want to take anything away from that.

Our community is different in the sense that it's an independent organization, and so what we look for are opportunities to collaborate on things rather than necessarily be the director of all things community. It's more about, "How can we, as the community side of things and the commercial side of things, work together to tell the big Mautic story?" At the end of the day, we want Mautic to win, not Mautic-the-community versus Mautic-the-commercial business.

It's really about making sure that we're building awareness across the board, and so collaborating on things like webinars, and building content, and repurposing content. You know, we'll have conversations about allowing some of our partners and some people in the community to translate content into local languages. That's great, right? I don't have the resources today to go and translate into Spanish, and German, and French, and so if the community wants to take that content and translate it and then circulate it, that's great. That's a whole other channel that we can reach as an entire Mautic umbrella versus me or our marketing organization having to do all the heavy lifting there.

Kathleen: Yeah. It's really interesting because, you know, I've been a part of the HubSpot community for a long time, and they certainly have their ardent followers who say things like, "I bleed orange," or, "I drink the orange Kool-aid," which is a little bit of a scary statement if you know the history of the Kool-aid thing. One of the reasons I wanted to reach out to you for the podcast was that I first came across you in the Online Geniuses Slack channel, and I was reading through the Ask Me Anything that you did with the community there, which is not the Mautic community. It's a community of marketers.

Katie: Right.

Kathleen: And the number of people who were just incredibly passionate about Mautic, and incredibly vocal about how much they loved it versus some of the other platforms really struck me, and that's kind of what got me interested in talking to you because it is a different approach to community building, for sure, and definitely more organic.

Katie: It is. It is definitely more organic, and that's what excites me about being in this business here at Mautic, right? I mean, part of the reason I decided to join the company is because of this ... You know, we don't always see those kudos, right, we don't always see that front and center, like, "I love this," and, "I'm so glad I have this and not that." Don't get me wrong. I was super-excited to see that in the AMA, but that's not something we necessarily see every day, but it is an amazing thing to see this build on itself, and then grow. I really, truly look forward to seeing how much further it's going to go, and what the contributions are, and the amazing things they're going to do with this tool that we didn't think of, or I didn't think of for my own marketing. It's a fun ride from that standpoint, and again, I think it's incredibly powerful, but it's no longer just us. It's about all of us, right? It's a bigger thing, which can be in itself interesting and fun.

Kathleen: Rewinding a little bit, because we're so focused on inbound marketing on this podcast, one of the things that I talk with a lot with my guests is organic traffic.

Katie: Sure.

Kathleen: I mean, when you talk about inbound marketing, one of the key foundational pieces is driving organic traffic, and I'm wondering what you guys have done in that area. Marketing automation for example, just that keyword alone, if you were to take a keyword approach and say, "Hey, what keywords do we want to own?", and if you picked that one, any SEO worth their salt would be like, "Yeah, I don't know if you're going to get that one." I'm really curious about your organic strategy, and particularly traffic growth. Is it because you're getting really niche and specific, or what's working for you guys?

Katie: Yeah, actually it's less about niche and specific. We haven't gotten to that point, right? We haven't refined our message well enough that we can go and pick 10, or 12, or 20 niche topics that we can really own. Certainly owning "open marketing cloud." I mean, it's part of our corporate brand, and so working on making sure that when folks are looking for that, that they're finding Mautic. I'll be perfectly honest. One of our challenges is that when you search for Mautic, the first thing that comes up is the Mautic community. Naturally it's been around longer, it's got a lot of content, there's a lot of contribution there, so from a commercial standpoint it is a challenge for me as the VP of Marketing for Mautic.

It's a nice challenge to have. If they're looking for Mautic, that's a great thing, and they're finding information, but it's one of those things, it's like, okay, how do I organize our content and make sure that we're providing the things that make sense, and that we're being served up in a way that's beneficial not just to us, you know, naturally that's important, but to Mautic as a whole. But you're right. Owning "marketing automation" is nearly impossible, right? It'd be like trying to own "CRM," right? And it's just hard.

So, we're trying to figure out some of those things as we go along. We have some other ideas around some of the things that we're going to start to talk about, but I think more than anything, my highest-level goal has been making content that's authentic, and original, and not just same as everything else that they've been saying for the last 10 years, right? How do we find ways to tell this story a little bit differently but still have it be meaningful, and useful, and not just noise, right?

Kathleen: I think you guys do that really well on the About Us page on your site. It comes out very strongly as, if you're the marketer who's feeling like they're not getting what they need from their marketing platforms, we're for you. If you're happy with your marketing platform, congratulations! And I love how it's like, "No, really, congratulations!" And I think you come out and you really identify quickly your unique point of view within the industry, which is important. So, looking at that challenge of trying to out-Mautic Mautic-the-community, I'd love to hear more about what you're thinking of doing there, and also, you talked about optimizing for "open marketing cloud," and that's definitely all about having a set of branded keywords, and I always think of that as a demand generation strategy, right? You're going to create demand that didn't exist before.

Katie: Sure.

Kathleen: So, can you talk a little bit about how you go about getting people to even search that term? Like, how do you make that part of the lexicon?

Katie: That's a really good question, and I'm not sure I've figured it out yet. It's a message that we introduced last fall. We introduced it as part of a product launch, and we were at the MarTech event, and the MarketingProfs event, and we had been mulling it over for most of the summer last year and then realized, "Okay, it's time." We have to get this out into the market. We think that this is the right thing to say. And so, we got it out there, and we're having conversations with prospects -- particularly fairly large organizations -- where what we start to see was that they would be telling our story before we started telling our story in that, you know, "My challenge is that I have this homegrown CRM, and I can't connect anything to it, and so I can't use marketing automation because I can't connect it." That's our story. Or, "I've built this SaaS platform, and I really want to understand what users are doing in the free solution so that I can start to send communications to them, and automate it, and get more personalized, but we built it. It's not a solution we bought." Yes, that's our story.

How do we start to tell what it really means, and use examples of what it means, and really be more strategic about how we apply that type of content and not make it hype, right? It's more than hype. How do we tie it back to, this is really going to help me do my job better, or this is going to help me build my pipeline, or explain how I'm delivering results to the organization, and starting to build the pillars underneath it that support those messages.

Kathleen: It's interesting. This past Monday, I published an episode of the podcast with Zak Pines from Bedrock Data, and he talked about how their marketing is all built around customer stories and talking about use cases, and it sounds a lot like what you're talking about. It's almost like they didn't need to ever optimize for the top of the funnel because the people that are finding them know very specifically, I need to connect Microsoft Dynamics and X.

Katie: Right. 

Kathleen: There are so many people out there with those pain points, and if you can tap into that exact pain point, you naturally find that audience.

Katie: Absolutely. And you have to make it in a way that's not just words, right? I can put all kinds of words on a paper, and I can say "open" 45 different ways, but if at the end of the day it has no meaning to you and it's not going to help you be better at what you're doing, again, it just becomes noise, right? So, it's our job and our challenge to figure out how we do that while not compromising anything along the way.

Kathleen: So, how have you developed? I mean, do you have a particular strategy for developing the brand voice? Because it sounds like that's really at the center of all of this. You mentioned wanting to remain authentic and really tap into the audiences' pain points. Do you have a style guide that governs what the brand voice sounds like at Mautic?

Katie: We have a style guide. It has been less focused on voice than maybe it should have been, and I think part of that is, we were still kind of trying to figure out what that voice is. And I think that part of establishing what the voice is started with, "what's our big message?" And so, once we got to the point last fall where we're like, okay, "open marketing cloud," let's let that play a little bit, let's put it in the market, let's see what kind of response we get. And the more encouragement we got, it's like, okay, now we feel really good about this story, we feel really good about this message. Now, how do we start to craft that voice, you know, exactly as you're describing, around it, and how do we make sure that, what does that really mean? "Open" is about transparency and flexibility. Our voice should reflect that. I think authenticity becomes even more important in this case because of that.

And part of it is really finding who represents the voices in our organization at the same time, right? So, everybody from our CEO to our CTO, myself as the VP of Marketing being the subject matter expert to some extent within the organization, the voice of our customers, are talking with Customer Success and really building that into it, and what do they say, and how do they think about it, and how are they reacting to what Mautic brings to the table, and those types of things?

I brought a new person on my team a couple of weeks ago, and he just has the right way of saying things that support all of that. And it's just the style of writing and his personal marketing style, and I think that that's brought a lot to the table, too, so it's been a combination of things. It's not sort of, like, "We hit it with this one thing." It's the iterative process of marketing, right? It's just how you build on things that are working, and walk away from things that aren't.

Kathleen: Now, shifting gears for a moment, what platforms are you finding your audience is on? I mean, there's a lot of channels out there these days, starting with the traditional social media channels, going to platforms like Medium, and Reddit, and all these other places. Are there particular places that you're really concentrating and finding success with?

Katie: We definitely see pockets of certain things, right? Certainly large numbers of people who are currently using one of the competitive solutions, or have in the past, so they've come to a new organization and they've used Marketo and Eloqua, and three other things before they got there, and so they're evaluating on behalf of the organization, like, "What are we going to do here?" So, we certainly see pockets of different things. We largely see Marketo, and HubSpot, and Pardot. Those are the big ones that we see more often than not.

That being said, because we're talking to B2C, we will often see things like ExactTarget, and we started to see some Silverpop, and we're starting to see some of the other ones, and so it's a bit of a range there. I think that the thing that is most striking to me is that -- and it could be a bit of selection bias in that the people that are coming to us and talking to us -- the reason they're talking to us is because of this, but I feel like we're talking to a lot more organizations that are less interested in having the out-of-the-box, follow-my-playbook type of solution, right? They need the flexibility of ... "Yeah, I know it works really well with this, this, and this, but I have two of those things, but my third thing over here is not that, and I need that." And so, they're looking a lot more for more flexible solutions, in particular, things that they've built in their organization.

From a CRM standpoint, we see Salesforce up and down, non-stop. However, because we have native plugins with six other solutions, we're starting to see a lot of people who are using Sugar, and a lot of people using Pipedrive, and ConnectWise, and Microsoft Dynamics, and so I think part of the openness of the product, as well as these native plugins that we've built, have given us the opportunity to talk to a wide range of people, which is ... It's good, but it can be challenging in that, how do we focus? How do we spend our time if we can talk to everybody, and everybody's a good fit? One of the most dangerous places to be for a marketer, I think.

Kathleen: Yeah.

Katie: And certainly for a sales team, so it's one of those things where we are treading along that line and watching it very closely, making sure that we're not getting too broad for our own good, but also not too focused for our own good, if that makes sense.

Kathleen: What does the landscape look like in terms of agencies that help companies onboard, manage, execute using Mautic? On your site I don't see a formal agency partner program like some of the other organizations have.

Katie: Yup.

Kathleen: And I know there are agencies out there that do work with the product. I'm just curious, is there a plan in the works to create a channel, or how are you working with agencies?

Katie: Absolutely. So, we started the process late last year, and it's something we're continuing to build on, but certainly open to having partnership conversations, and at this point we want to have as many conversations as possible. So if you want to be a reseller partner, or if you want to be an implementer, if you want to be a referral partner, if you want to be an agency -- I mean, we're talking to organizations from all of those different verticals, so to speak. We absolutely have some formality around it. I wouldn't say we're to the point of some of the other providers, naturally because they've been around much longer and it's been part of their strategy much longer, but definitely something where we're actively having those conversations, and frankly, invite future conversations, so additional agencies or whomever we want to have those conversations with, absolutely open to them. And in fact, we've actually just put somebody on our team to be a dedicated partner manager, and that went into effect yesterday.

Kathleen: Ah!

Katie: So ... Yes, good timing.

Kathleen: Yeah.

Katie: It's definitely something that we're "eyes wide open," and we know that it's going to be a core part of how we go to market.

Kathleen: I imagine there's a tremendous opportunity there for agencies that become early adopters with it.

Katie: Absolutely. You know, and frankly, with the Maestro tool that we have, right, Maestro is a management tool for multiple marketing automation solutions, right? If I have five or 10 clients, each of them using Mautic in their own instance, this tool will allow you to be a little bit more efficient and do a few more things from an agency standpoint that we're finding are pretty valuable to the folks we're talking to. So, it's definitely part of the mindset. It's not something that's an afterthought at all.

Kathleen: Yeah, I did notice that. It looks like your product is moving more in that direction of being able to support agencies really efficiently.

Katie: Absolutely.

Kathleen: So, there's two questions I always ask every guest I have on the podcast, and I'd love to hear what you have to say about this. The first one is, company or individual, who do you think is doing inbound marketing really well right now?

Katie: That's a good question. It's funny because from afar I watch a lot of different organizations. We're in the Boston area. Maybe I'm speaking for myself and not the rest of the tech community here, but I feel like there's a tendency to kind of focus on Boston-centric organizations, right? So I plan and do try to follow, naturally, people in my network but also outside of the Boston market. There's a number of companies that I think do a really nice job of just marketing in general, but certainly companies like Gainsight, and Domo, and ... I'm trying to think of one in the Boston area. I mean, who couldn't love what Cybereason is doing from an enterprise software standpoint, right? Mike Volpe, you know, he's just an amazing marketer, and so some of these organizations locally here do a really amazing job. And I think they do different jobs really well.
You know, you look at Drift, and Drift is doing a really great job of building tons of awareness, and buzz, and things that that, and there's something to be said for that. Everybody knows who they are now, and I think that that's really admirable. I don't know if I answered your question or not.

Kathleen: Yeah, definitely. There's a lot of good names in there and a few that have come up in the past. A lot of people tend to mention Drift, and I think that might be because I have a lot of Boston companies on, but no ...

Katie: It could be.

Kathleen: I agree with you, there are several of those companies that are really doing great work. The other question I love to ask is, obviously things change so fast in the world of digital marketing in particular. How do you stay up to date? How do you educate yourself?

Katie: Oh, that's a good question. It's so hard to stay on top of things that are going on. I do look at email, certainly scan through Twitter, and then follow a lot of different organizations, whether that's news organizations or individuals, just sort of seeing what people are doing and what they're talking about.

LinkedIn is another place where I spend time looking for what's going on, what's new in the world. But I'm a big fan of podcasts lately. I have a long commute, and so they've become my new, sort of like, obsession. Oddly enough, they're not necessarily marketing-oriented podcasts. They're more business podcasts that I'm kind of obsessed with at the moment, and sort of tech in general.

And of course, always making sure I'm getting out talking to people. It can be hard, especially at a small company like this where we're trying to go a million miles an hour to just say, "I need to leave the office for a half a day and go to a CMO event. I just went to the MassTLC one, gosh, it was two weeks ago now, and I was like, "Oh, do I really have time for this?" and I forced myself to go, and I'm like, "God, this is so important. I really have to make sure I'm doing this."

Kathleen: Yeah.

Katie: Not only for me, personally and professionally, but for the business, right? It's better for the business if I'm out listening, and taking it in, and bringing it back to the organization.

Kathleen: Absolutely. So, I have to ask, what are some of your favorite podcasts?

Katie: I knew you were going to ask that! So, I'm currently obsessed with Legends and Losers. I don't know if you've seen that one. So, the guys who wrote the Play Bigger book -- Chris Lockhead, a well-known CMO in Silicon Valley turned podcaster -- and his stories, the interviews they have, are a combination of marketers, tech people, and then just world-class leaders, and I'm just completely obsessed with it.

Kathleen: Ooh, I'll have to check that out. 

Katie: Another one that I listen to is Kara Swisher's Recode Decode. I think she's just a tremendous interviewer, and she really has a way of getting information out of people, and I really like her direct approach, and questions that she asks are really interesting, so I'm kind of obsessed with that one, too.

Kathleen: Great. Well, I'm a little biased, but I love podcasts also.

Katie: You do? What do you listen to?

Kathleen: I listen to a lot of them. It's evolved over the years. I used to own my own digital marketing agency, and so when I was doing that I listened to The Inbound Agency Journey, Build a Better Agency, The Agency Growth Podcast.

Katie: Yeah.

Kathleen: I mean, there were a ton. Now that I'm in this role, I'm kind of shifting what I listen to, and changing it up, and so I definitely listen to Growth Everywhere with Eric Siu, and I'll do Marketing School when I have the five minutes, Databox has a great podcast, so there's a bunch. For me, it is also a mix of business growth stories and also, then, marketing podcasts.

Katie: Yeah.

Kathleen: My podcast list is longer than my free time, unfortunately.

Katie: Same. I can't listen to them all, which is bad because there's so much good stuff in there, but ...

Kathleen: Yeah.

Katie: It's hard to keep up.

Kathleen: Well, this has been so fun and so interesting. I have a million more questions, but of course we don't have a lot more time. For people listening who have questions, what is the best way for someone to reach out and get in touch with you?

Katie: Yeah. I mean, certainly email, so katie@mautic.com works. I made sure that it was nice and short. I'm on the Mautic community Slack channel, so if they're in the Mautic community, they can certainly reach me on Slack. My name on Slack is Katie_S. Again, I'm trying to keep it simple. And, of course LinkedIn and Twitter, and things like that I'm certainly active on, so I can be found there as well.

Kathleen: Great. And she said she really does check her email. I heard that earlier, so ...

Katie: I do. I do. And in fact, I read every email that I get from every BDR from every other company so that I can compare it to how we're doing, and how we're saying things.

Kathleen: You are a saint.

Katie: I look at them. I don't respond to them, but I look at them.

Kathleen: Well, thank you so much. It's been fun. If you're listening and you found some value, please give the podcast a review on iTunes, or Stitcher, or the platform of your choice, and if you know someone else doing kick-ass inbound marketing work, I would love it if you would tweet me @WorkMommyWork, because I'd like to interview them. Thank you, Katie.

Katie: Thank you. I appreciate it.